John Hay

Sir John & Lady Sarah HAY


via Tumut,



John Hay was born on the 22nd June, 1816, at Little Ythsie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland, the son of John Hay, farmer, and his wife Jean, née Mair.


In 1838 John Hay married Miss Mary Chalmers.


They arrived in Sydney on the 1st July, 1838 on the "Amelia Thompson" and soon settled at Welaregang on the Upper Murray. In partnership with his brother-in-law, James Chalmers, he was a very successful squatter. .

He removed from Sydney with his family in 1888 to his Gocup Station, near Tumut, residing there some seven years, when be abandoned station pursuits. The deceased is survived by two sons and two daughters.

The "HAY" name MEANING

This is a Scottish and an English name, with two distinct origins applying to both.

The first of these is as a topographic name for someone who lived in or by an enclosure, from the Olde English pre 7th century 'haeg', Middle English 'hey(e)'. After the Norman Conquest the word became confused with 'hay' meaning 'forest fenced off for hunting' or 'hedge'. Later, the surname became locational denoting someone who came from any of the various places called 'Hay' or 'Hayes' or compounds of these.

The second possible origin is from the nickname for a tall man, from the Middle English 'hay' or 'hey' meaning tall or high. 'He was a strong man and hey', c. 1300.

The William de Haya mentioned below is recorded as being 'Pincerna' or cup-bearer to the King and obtained the lands of Errol in Gowrie from William the Lion c. 1178-1182. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of William de Haya. which was dated c. 1160 Charter Witness. during the reign of Malcolm IV of Scotland, 1153-1165 Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation.

In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling. The surname of DE la HAYE was of English origin, meaning 'dweller by the enclosure'. Local surnames, by far the largest group, derived from a place name where the man held land or from the place from which he had come, or where he actually lived. These local surnames were originally preceded by a preposition such as "de", "atte", "by" or "in".

The names may derive from a manor held, from working in a religious dwelling or from literally living by a wood or marsh or by a stream. Following the Crusades in Europe a need was felt for a family name. This was recognized by those of noble blood, who realised the prestige and practical advantage it would add to their status. Early records of the name mention Ranulf de Lahaia of the County of Essex in 1119.

Robert de Haia, founder of Boxgrove Priory, County Sussex in 1123, came from Haye-du-Puits, La Manche, France. John del Haye of the County of Northumberland in 1275. Richard del Heye of the County of Worcestershire in 1275. Edward Delahaye of Yorkshire, was listed in the Yorkshire Poll Tax of 1379. Many factors contributed to the establishment of a surname system. For generations after the Norman Conquest of 1066 a very few dynasts and magnates passed on hereditary surnames, but the main of the population, with a wide choice of first-names out of Celtic, Old English, Norman and Latin, avoided ambiguity without the need for a second name.

As society became more stabilized, there was property to leave in wills, the towns and villages grew and the labels that had served to distinguish a handful of folk in a friendly village were not adequate for a teeming slum where perhaps most of the householders were engaged in the same monotonous trade, so not even their occupations could distinguish them, and some first names were gaining a tiresome popularity, especially Thomas after 1170. The hereditary principle in surnames gained currency first in the South, and the poorer folk were slower to apply it. By the 14th century however, most of the population had acquired a second name. The associated arms are recorded in Sir Bernard Burkes General Armory. Ulster King of Arms in 1884.(quartered by Grenville, of Stowe. Visit County Cornwall, 1620. - (Ref- Lyn Langley.

George of Kinnoull Hay 1630 1672 When George of Kinnoull Hay was born in 1630 in Perthshire, Scotland, his father, Francis, was 31 and his mother, Jonet, was 27. He married Marion Nicolson on April 28, 1656. They had four children in 28 years. He died in October 1672 in Alloa, Scotland, at the age of 42. - (Ref- Lyn Langley.



Sir John Hay, K.C.M.G., President of tbe Legislative Council, and one of our oldest colonists, died at bis residence, Rose Bay, at 3 a.m, on Wednesday morning. For some months past Sir John's health has been a source of anxiety to his relatives and friends.

The action of his heart became very weak, and necessitated a cessation of all active duties, Consequently he has been absent from meetings of the Legislative Council for sometime. Two or three months ago a somewhat severe attack of influenza incapacitated him, and shortly afterwards symptoms of dropsy set in, which completely prostrated him, and caused considerable suffering. The medical attendants, Drs. Mckellar, Skirving, and M'Cormtck, were assiduous in their attentions, and so far as medical skill and careful attendance could afford relief, it was obtained.

During the next 10 days Sir John has been in a semi-conscious condition, only occasionally recognising relatives and friends. On Monday night Lady Hay had a paralytic seizure and is now lying in an insensible condition. Her medical attendants have very grave fears for her recovery.

Sir John Hay (says the Sydney Telegraph) was born at Little Yetbsie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland, on June 23, 1816, and educated at King's College, Aberdeen. Year after year he succeeded in carrying off the highest honors and took his degree in 1834. The same year he proceeded to Edinburgh and commenced the study of the law. After two or three years spent in this manner, during which time he qualified as a Scotch barrister, accounts of the new settlement in Australia attracted his attention.

Leaving his legal studies, he decided to seek his fortune in this colony. He arrived in Sydney in 1838, and before tbe close of the year had settled beyond Albury, at Welaregang Station, where he resided for 18 years. In the meantime Sir John had taken up and occupicd the Noorong station", on tbo wakool River, some 60 miles from Deniliquin.

To this be subsequently added by purchase the adjoining stations "Geeger and "Bertmegad", and was interested at different times in various other station properties throughout the colony.

During the whole of that period he devoted himself laboriously to the work of his run. In tho midst of a busy life Mr. Hay did not neglect public questions. By his sentiments on current topics he obtained the full confidence of those living within his circle, and when responsible government was at length declared Mr. Hay appealed to the electors of Murrumbidgee in conjunction with Mr. George Macleay, their former representative and was returned without opposition. Prior to this he had risen in popular favor by his opposition to the border duties over the Mnrray. He was an earnest advocate of freetrade and took a prominent part in the discussions held on that subject. On Septem ber 17, 1856, Mr. Hay, as one of the mott prominent members of tbe first Legislative Assembly, was chosen to move a vote of censure on the Cowper Ministry. On this occasion he made his memorable speech against the appointment of Mr. James Martin to tbe Attorney-Generalship. His motion was carried on September 23 by 2G | to 23. This was the Recond Cabinet defeated sioce the new House met, and doubt was freely expressed as to tbe ultimate success of the new constitution on its novel popular principles, Mr. Cowper, the defeated Premier shared these doubts and advised the Governor, Sir W. Denison, to dissolve Parliament and proceed to a fresh election.

This Sir William refused to do, and sent for Mr. Hay, as tbe mover of the resolution, and requested him to undertake the responsibility of forming a new Administration. Mr. Hay declined the honor and recommended that Mr. Watson Parker, who represented Parramatta in the Assembly, should be sent for. The Governor adopted the advice and deputed Mr Hay to request Mr. Parker to undertake tbe onerous task. Mr. Parker acquiesced, and succeed in forming a Ministry, in which he himself was Colonial Secretary; Mr Stuart Donaldson, Treasurer and Mr John Hay, Minister for Lands and Works. On the introduction of tbe Electoral Act, September 3, 1857, Mr. Cowper, the ex Premier, moved an amendment to the effect that the bill be read this day day six months. The amendment was carried by 26 to 23, which curious enough, are the exact numbers by which Mr. Hay carried his vote against Mr Cowper.

The Parker Hay Cabinet therefore, after conducting the business of the country for 11 months, resigned and Mr. Cowper again resumed office. Mr. Hay continued without intermission to be a representative of the people from his first election in 1856 to his appointment to the Upper House in 1867.

In the first and second Parliaments he represented the pastoral district of Murrumbidgee, in tbe third and fourth he represented the Murray, one of tbe new electorates into wbich his former constitutency was divided by the new Electoral Act.

In 1864 he accepted by invitation to come forward for Central Cumberland, wbich electorates he represented until his translation to the Upper House in 1867. He opposed decidedly some of the principal measures of the Administrations formed by Mr Cowper and Mr afterwards Sir John Robertson, more particularly those having having reference to the land question.

He was always a staunch defender of the squatting interest. Mr Hay was opposed to all tbe efforts made to place the land on a free select basis. He took a conseicuous part in 1860 in opposing tbe 13th or free selection. On October 25, 1860, wben tbe 13th clause was under discussion in committee of the whole House, He moved as an amendment the insertion of tbe words 'after survey.' The amendment was carried by 33 to 28, and a general election followed. The cry upon which the suffrages of the people were sought was free selection before survey, and it carried the day. A large majority was returned pledged to support the rejected clause. Mr. Hay was returned for the Murray, among the few opponents of the principle who were sent back to Parliament with the renewed oonfidence of their constituents. Defeated at his attempts to modify the Robinson land policy on tbis important point, Mr. Hay eventally accepted the decision of Parliament and endeavoured to make the heat of a system which differed widely from the one be would have established.

He supported the fencing bill, remarking that it would take the sting out of free selection. After the defeat of the Parker Ministry Mr Hay did so again hold any ministerial office, although frequenty invited to do so.

On October 14, 1862, he was elected Speaker of the Legislative Assembly. Mr. Hay was re elected next Parliament and continued to hold the position for three years, wben failing health compelled him to resign.

On June 26, 1867, he was transferred to the cleaner atmosphere of the Upper House and on tbe demise of Sir Terance Airey Murray was appointed its president, which office he hold on the day of his death.

In 1879 he received the honor of knighthood as Commander of the Order of St. Michael and St. George. In conjunction with the late Mr. Alexander Campbell Sir John fouuded tbe Mercant Bank of Sydney, which has lately become amalgamate with tbe Commerce Bank of Australia.

The public career of Sir John Hay was that of a representative of the great pastoral industry of the colony. Too much credit could hardly be given to the hardy pioneers of tbe old colonial days, wbo paved tbe way for the future of the pastoral industry of Australia. There was, however, always a kind of theoratical recognition that the claims and privileges of the squatter were subservient to the demands of the settler and that the squatter, who had the temporiarynas of the great unclaimed pasturages of the interior, should give way to advancing civilisation, But this theory has gradually grown dimmer.

With increasing prosperity the squatting element has secured increased power, strong enongh in all instances to source itself full enjoyment of its rights. Men suoh as Sir John Hay, whose constant record as a public man gave him weight in the councils of the country, have done much to farther tbe squatting interest.

to make him instrumental in modifying the class prejudice which existed between the squatting and selecting classes. He was content to fight his party's battle in the proper place and never carried them into daily life. Success never intoxicated him, and when defeated he was ever ready to abide the result. His career in every respect presents an excellent example of the virtues of energetic self-reliance and prudent practicality with which so many of his Scottish countrymen have so Well illustrated and sustained the personal and political life, not only of this, but otber countries.

In private life Sir John was unostentatious, and fully believed in and always carried out the Scriptural conjanction, Let not thy left band know what thy right hand depth.' The full extent of his private charities will never be known, but there are many who have occasion to remember him with gratitude.

Sir John Hay, 1816 - 1892

It is with regret that we have to chronicle the death of Sir John Hay, President of the Legislative Council, which took place at his residence at Rose Bay at 3 o'clock yesterday morning.

Sir John Hay - was identified with the politics of New South Wales for 36 years, and took a lively interest in every movement to assist the progress of the colony, or improve the condition of the people. The earlier years of his public life were marked with some of the most striking of the experiences of that period of political strife and turmoil, during which the colonists were endeavouring through their representatives in Parliament to establish upon a firm foundation the blessings of responsible government, and when he ceased to take the active part in politics which characterised his entrance into public life, and which continued in his political career for a number of years, he carried to the Speaker's chair in the Legislative Assembly, and subsequently to the office of President of the Legislative Council, matured abilities, a large experience, a well-established reputation, and the general respect of the community. He was a man whose name did not appear upon the Statute Book, and yet his public services were exceedingly useful by reason of his long Parliamentary career and the constant interest he took in every question connected with public legislation. One man may serve his country well by originating and carrying through Parliament laws which are of great benefit to the community; another may be equally serviceable by his efforts to assist in having those laws passed in the beet form possible. Sir John Hay belonged in great measure to the latter class of public benefactors.

He first came forward for political honours at the general election in 1850, when he was a squatter possessing a station called Waleregang, in the Murrumbidgee district. In this election he appeared as a candidate for the electorate of Murrumbidgee, in opposition to Mr. George Macleay, who had previously represented the district in the Legislature. Mr. Hay, as he stated in the speech he made on the occasion, had come into the district when just emerged from boyhood, and the whole of his mature years had been spent there.

He recognised the fact that in the elections at that period the people were inaugurating free institutions in this country, and that according to the way the electors exercised their suffrages responsible government would be a curse or a blessing. Government of the people by the people he behoved to be the most glorious achievement of the mind of man, but it could only be carried out where there were wisdom and virtue among the people themselves. He declared that he would take with him into Parliament honesty of purpose and an unprejudiced mind, and trust to those to steer him safely through the eddies and currents of political life. “Merely to please the electors he would do nothing. When he could not please them by doing his duty, and so satisfying his conscience at the same time, he would give back the trust he had received at their hands untarnished by any vile subserviency."

He approved of the provisions of the new Constitution which was then coming into operation, with the exception of that which related to a nominee Upper House, and this is singular when considered in relation to his subsequent connection with the Legislative Council. A nominee Chamber, he maintained, would be inoperative for any good end, and at the very best would be a useless encumbrance, and the farthest thing possible from ornamental.

To have the whole of the members nominated by the Ministry he thought especially objectionable, because of the probable frequent change of Ministries, and the equally frequent appointment of members to the Upper House in order to preserve the balance of influence in that chamber as each Ministry retired from office. "Was it not palpable," he was reported to have said, "that such a body as this must become could never establish any prestige, that it would become, instead of a council of grave and reverend seigneurs, judges, and men of mark, a mob - an unwieldy mob without consistency, character, or weight, to which no man who respected himself would content to belong, and only fit to perish amidst ignominy and contempt?"

Entertaining these views at that time he desired, if two Houses were indispensable, to substitute for the proposed nominee Chamber an elective body limited in number and formed on the principle of double election, possessing "real power, real influence in legislation, and to which it would be felt the very highest honour to belong." This body, he considered, whether it were called Senate or Council, would be the cream of the deliberative wisdom of the country, would have a high prestige, and would really possess that valuable conservative character which a nominee House never could possess.

Like many other public men, the opinions of the earlier years' of his public life - and particularly that relating to the constitution of the Legislative Council - became modified or changed as they wore put to the test of experience and practical results.

One other point in his maiden political speech which calls for notice was that he showed himself to be a warm advocate for the federation of the colonies, as he clearly saw how injurious the want of such a union was upon the postal system of communication with the mother country and upon intercolonial traffic.

When Mr Hay came to Sydney, after his election, with the intention of assisting, to the best of his ability, in the establishment of the new order of things, he found political matters in a very disordered state. Personal feeling, party rancour, and factious opposition brought about a very unsettled condition of affairs, which, for a time, raised doubts in the public mind as to whether the colony had advanced so far as to justify the granting to it of a Constitution which gave the community the great advantages of self-government.

Shortly after Mr Hay's return to the Legislature the administration under Mr. Cowper, and in which Mr. James Martin (the late Sir James Martin) was appointed to the office of Attorney-General, was formed. To this appointment of Mr. Martin the member for the Murrumbidgee, in common with others, strongly objected, and on the 17th September, 1850, Mr. Hay moved a resolution declaring that the formation of the Ministry under circumstances which precluded the prospect of its obtaining the confidence of the representatives of the people was calculated to obstruct the public business, and was most reprehensible.

A more sweeping motion of censure has never been moved in the Assembly, and, of course, it affected the existence of the Ministry. Mr Hay moved the resolution in a very lengthy speech, which declared that the motion was not a factious one, nor moved without consultation with others, but that it was put forward in the interests of responsible government, and in the desire to have a Ministry which could command the confidence of a majority of the House and the country, and therefore sufficiently strong to carry on with advantage the business of the country. Mr. Martin, who was chiefly concerned in the result, gave Mr. Hay credit for having brought forward his resolution on grounds which he conceived to be for the good of the country, though he would not allow the same justification of the course pursued in the cases of those who supported Mr. Hay in the action he was taking, and the newspaper comments the next morning upon Mr. Hay's speech were very complimentary.

"The calm, gentlemanly, and effective speech of Mr. Hay," said one, "did him infinite honour. He showed the metal of which public men are made who stamp with dignity the senate of a country. Undaunted by interruptions as rude as they were ridiculous, he said what he intended, and he will not have reason to be ashamed of his first prominent appearance in the House."

Years afterwards, when Mr. Hay was raised to important positions in Parliament, opinions of a similar complimentary nature were expressed by leading members in both Houses of the Legislature. Mr. Hay's motion of want of confidence in the Cowper Government was carried, and a new Ministry was formed under the leadership of Mr. Henry Watson Parker (afterwards Sir Henry Watson Parker),

Mr. Hay becoming Secretary for Lands and Public Works. That Ministry was defeated on the question of Electoral Reform, and was succeeded by the second Ministry in which Mr. Cowper was Colonial Secretary and Premier, and Mr. John Robertson (afterwards Sir John Robertson) Minister for Lands. The question of the public lands at this time became a matter of great interest; but it was not till the reconstruction in 1800 of the Robertson Ministry, which merged into the third Cowper Ministry, that the famous Crown Lands Alienation Act of 1861 was brought forward by its author.

The free selection clause of the measure excited great opposition on the part of all who were interested in pastoral pursuits, and on the 25th October, 1860, while the bill was in committee, Mr. Hay moved an amendment of the 13th clause, or that which permitted free selection before survey, with the object of providing for a survey before any land was selected.

He was opposed to the principle of free selection on the ground that it would destroy the pastoral interest and injure the revenue by diminishing the value of pastoral property, and doubtless his opposition was to some extent influenced by his connection with pastoral pursuits; but he argued very justly that survey before selection was necessary for reasons of economy, certainty of title, and security of tenure. There appeared to be two parties in the House at this period of our political history, and as an hon. member very suggestively put it at the time, one party were open to the objection that they were endeavouring to retain more than they ought to hold, and the other, that they were endeavouring to obtain more than they ought to get.

Mr. Hay, however, repudiated the idea of leading the pastoral interest in his opposition to the free-selection clause - a charge that was levelled at him by the author of the bill and contended that his past conduct would show that his judgment on any public question had never been warped by self-interest.

He had always deprecated anything like the formation of a pastoral party, and in dealing with this question he had endeavoured to act for the host interests of the whole community. After an animated debate, which continued for two nights, the amendment was passed on a division of 33 to 28; the Governor, in accordance with the advice of his Ministers, dissolved the Assembly, and the Government went to the country with the cry of "Free selection before survey."

During the discussions on the bill in committee Mr. Robertson had challenged Mr. Hay to contest before the electors upon the principle in the bill with reference to which they differed, and had threatened the event of the Government being defeated and Parliament being dissolved to resign his seat for the Hunter and oppose Mr. Hay in the Murrumbidgee electorate. This threat was not carried out, but the general election resulted so fortunately for the Ministry that a large majority were returned pledged to support the clause upon which the Government had met with defeat. After this Mr. Hay took no further part in the Government of the country, but simply performed his duties in the Assembly as an independent member rather than as a member of the Opposition.

He applied himself carefully to the study of the usages of Parliament, brought to the debates in the House a tone of courtesy and a dignified demeanour which were far from being unrecognised or without their value, and proved himself on all occasions to be an able debater and a man of extensive information.

It was the possession of these qualities which on the retirement of Mr. Terence Aubrey Murray (afterwards Sir Terence Aubrey Murray) from the Speakership of the Legislative Assembly in 1862 pointed to Mr. Hay as the member best fitted to fill the vacant chair.

He was appointed Speaker of the Legislative Assembly on the motion of Mr. Piddington, seconded by the late Dr. Lang. In a former Parliament, when the Speakership was resigned by Sir Daniel Cooper, it was proposed to Mr. Hay that he should allow himself to be nominated for the chair, but on that occasion he declined for the reasons that the appointment was not congenial to him, and because it appeared to him the position was one that should be considered as a fitting reward for the long Parliamentary labours of the gentleman whom he afterwards succeeded.

In 1862, when the position was offered to him, it appeared to be the spontaneous and unanimous wish of the House that he should become the Speaker, and he then consented. The onerous duties of this office he performed for three years, at the end of which time, in consequence of failing health, he resigned, and was succeeded by the late William Munnings Arnold. He continued a member of the Assembly after his resignation of the Speakership for about a year and a half, and then was summoned to the Legislative Council, of which House, on the decease of Sir Terence Aubrey Murray in 1873, he became President.

No higher encomiums could be passed upon any man raised to a high official position than those which fell from the lips of the leading members of the Legislative Council, whoso duty it was to congratulate the new President upon his appointment, and the subsequent career of Sir John Hay in the Upper House fully justified the confidence that had been placed in him. His long Parliamentary and official experience, his firmness, and his dignified manner eminently qualified him for presiding over such a body of gentlemen as those in the Legislative Council, and while his ruling from the chair was always respected, his opinions upon any questions of legislation invariably carried great weight.

Outside Parliament he gave much of his time in assisting any movement which had for its object the public good. As one of the vice-presidents of the New South Wales Agricultural Society, he shared in the labour of the managing body of that organisation for promoting the pastoral and agricultural interests in the colony, and for the encouragement of industrial enterprise; and took an active part in the duties performed by the International Exhibition Commission.

In 1877 he was knighted, receiving the order of K.C.M.G., and, as President of the Legislative Council, he stood next to the Lieutenant-Governor (Sir Alfred Stephen) as the person charged with the duties of Administrator of the Government whenever the appointment of Administrator became necessary. Sir John's administration of the office of President of the Legislative Council has been generally recognised as impartial and dignified.

The deceased gentleman, it will be remembered, had the degree of LL.D. conferred upon him sometime ago by the University of Aberdeen. In September, 1889, the members of the Chamber over which he presided procured a marble bust of Sir John Hay, which now adorns the hall of the Legislative Council. The deceased gentleman occupied the presidential chair for the last time on the 24th September, 1891. Early in that month he was suffering from an attack of influenza, which was so marked in its character that he was absent from the House on the 9th and 10th September last. Whilst becoming convalescent the President made a visit to the Murrnmbidgee, in the hope of recruiting his health, but influenza had made such serious inroads into his constitution that he never fully recovered his former strength.

He resumed the chair on the evening of the 16th, and as he fell asleep, it was supposed that death had taken place. Some medical members were about to approach to see whether that was really so, and all the members had the gratification of seeing Sir John open his eyes and resume the duties of his office. It transpired afterwards that he had performed a long journey by train and was simply suffering from exhaustion.

After the 24th September the deceased gentleman, acting upon the advice of his medical attendants, remained at home, and during the period that has intervened the presidential duties have been for the most part fulfilled by the Chairman of Committees, Mr. A. H. Jacob. On three occasions, however, during the absence of Mr. Jacob, due to illness, the chair was filled by Mr. W. J. Trickett.

Sir John Hay was attended during his illness by the Hon. Dr. Mackellar, Dr. Scott-Skirving, and Dr. McCormick.

On Monday night Lady Hay was seized with paralysis, and she is now lying an insensible condition, from which it is feared she will not recover.

The Government have decided that the funeral of Sir John Hay, which is to take place at half past 3 o'clock on Friday afternoon, shall be a public one. A Gazette Extraordinary issued yesterday afternoon contains the subjoined announcement :-"Colonial Secretary's Office, Sydney, 20th January, 1892. His Excellency the Governor announces to the public, with feelings of regret, the death of the Honourable Sir John Hay, K.C.M.G., President of the Legislative Council, which melancholy event took place this morning. His Excellency the Governor, with a desire to show every respect to the memory of the deceased, invites all the Civil officers of the Government to attend the funeral, which will move from his late residence, Rose Bay, on Friday, the 22nd instant, at 3.30 p.m. By his Excellency's command, George R. Dibbs." We are informed that carriages will be provided for such members of the Legislative Council as may wish to attend the funeral; carriages to be opposite Parliament House at half-past 2 o'clock to-morrow afternoon.


The Goulburn correspondent of the Sydney 'Daily Telegraph,' telegraphing on the 1st instant, says: One of the oldest of the old pioneers in the person of Mr John Hay more familiarly known in the early fifties as Swampy Bay died at his residence in Goulburn on Saturday evening. The deceaed who was born in 1823 at Spaeside, Morayshire, Scotland was the third son of the late Captain James Hay of the 93rd Highlanders. (Ref- The Capricornian (Rockhampton, Qld : 1875 - 1929)(about) Previous issue Saturday 12 September 1908).

John Hay - squatter - Gocup - (Ref-Greville 1872).Mr. John Hay and Mr. Frederick Lacy were partners as graziers in the Gocup station.

1868 - MAGISTERIAL INQUIRY OF THE DEATH OF MR FREDERICK LACY. Gocup Index - (From the Gundagai Times August 15.) A mnpiítorial inquiry was held by F. W. Vyner Esq. Police Magistrate of Tumut on the 8th instant at Gocup as to the cause of the very sudden death of Mr. Frederiok Lacy, of Gocup. The following evidence was taken -

John Hay deposed: I am a graziar and deceased who was my partner lived with me at Gocup. I last saw him alive about 2 o'olook yesterday afternoon (7th instant), at the Beehive Hotel. He complained of being tired and hungry and had dinner there after whioh he left to go home. Deceased had complained for a few days previous to his death of pains in his head and kidneys but I did not consider him seriously ill. He was generally very cheerful. But for the last week he appeared dull and dejected. I know of nothing to have made him so. He was not in pecuniary difficulties that I am aware of and I never considered him a man at all likely to destroy himself.

Sarah Hay - deposed: I am the wife of the last witness. Deceased left home shortly after breakfast yesterday morning to go into Tumut. He was not very well and had complained in the morning of a very bad headache but before he left he said - he was better. He had been complaining and on tho 6th instant he remained in bed all day. Next day he asked me for a little quinine, which I gave to him. For the last ten days he did hot scorn as well satisfied as when he came to Gocup. I never heard him say anything that would lead me to suppose be would destroy himself. Latterly he appeared always anxious about gettlng letters. I heard deceased was very ill at a sheep station about a mile from the place and I went down there. He died almost immediately after I got to him. There were five or six people with him. Ile-deposed; Deceased always had a bottle of strychnine on his bedroom table. He kept it for poisoning native cats. I found it there after his death, and now produce it. On Friday morning, before deceased left home to go to Tumut, he said to me, "I suppose Isabella (moaning my little girl) can give me the bottle she promised me." He then went to the school room and brought back a small bottle about two inohes long for which I gave him a cork. I have not seen that bottle since. Deceased was just starting for Tumut when he got it .'

David Patten deposed: I am a shepherd in the employ of Messrs Hay and Lacy, I was at the lumbing station about a mile from tbeir house on Friday afternoon when the deceased came on horseback. It was about half past 3 o'olook. He dismounted and came to me and told me to hold him up for he felt very bad. He said he was paralysed and was going to die. I tried to sobor him up, but he said, "Davy, I'm going to die, I must die." He said he had taken one glass of brandy at Brennan's public house. Another man named John Tubberty helped me to hold deceased and whilst we did so he took a fit. His hands were clenched, and locked. He got very stiff, threw his head back and bent his back. We bathed his head with cold water and he get better but he seemed to have no use of his limbs. He appeared quite sensible. I offered to send for Mrs Hay, but he told me not to do so then. but, to call for Joe, and William Clee, and Augustus to take him home; he said he was going to have anothor fit, and we took him into the hut and laid him on the bed. He than had another fit, but it did not lost long. He drank a teaspoonful of some water I gave him at this time and then told me I could go and look after the sheep as there were plenty to assist him. He complained of thirst and said he would have another fit. I bathed his lips with water and just as I was going out another fit came on. I did not see him after as Mrs Hay, Augustus, and Clee came and I then left the hut. Deceased was always quite sensible between the fits. He said repeatedly." Pattón, I am dying but you attend to the sheep. He did not scorn the least, alarmed or frightened and he did not ask to have & doctor sent for. He asked for anemetion and told me to mix some Bolt and water to melt one, but he could not drink it. He might ba anh'our ¡a the hut before he died. I have seen men in a fit, but never like the ones décensed had. They were different from falling, ¡cfness, 'Holiad froth on his mouth at the first fit and his teeth were clenohed so that I thought he was I getting lock-jaw.

Elizabeth Brennan deposed: My husband is land lord of the Australian Arms, Gocup Creek. Deceased called at my. house about 2 oclock on Friday afternoon, and had a glass of brandy, which I served him with out of a decantor. At the same time I also, served two men, one named Ned with brandy out of the same decantor. Deceased left as soon as he had drunk the brandy I did not nótice anything particular about him, except that his cheeks looked very red.

We have never had any poison in our house The lumbiora are never used for anything but for serving in the bar, and I never heard of anyone complaining of illness after drinking anything. in our house.

Edwin Hardy deposed: I am a fencer and have been working for deceased. I was at Brennan's public house when he came there on Friday. He took a nobbler of brandy and I had one at the sametime. Mrs Brennan served us out of the same decantor. I took two more glasses fróm the same decanter after deceased left and did not feel the least ill ofioots from ! thom. Deceased seemed to be in his usual health. It was dark brandy we took and we had no water with it. It was not at all bitter and joined to be good spirits. I am commonly called Ned.

Augustus Joromlas deposed: I am fitting up Gocup house for Mr Hay. On Friday afternoon I was called to go to the sheep stallion; where Mr Laoy was ill, I found deceased lying on his baok on a bed in the shepherd's hut, he was quite sensible and asked me if Mrs. Hay know he was ill. I told him Mrs Hay was olose at hand and he said he hoped she would not come and see him when he was in such a state. He said some brandy he had drunk at Brennan's had poisoned him, and that when he got to the 'shepherd's hut he felt ill he had to got off there. he also said he thought he should soon get a little better. I went out to Mrs Hay to tell her how ill deceased was and when I returned he was in a fit. He clenched his hands and his chèst oh'tho rUht side worked! violently. There was no froth from his mouth, but it got dry and his teeth were olenched. There was no distortion of the features. Before the fit came on he had twitohes and jorke, which increased in violence. He threw his head back and bib ohest up and scorned in great pain.

William Lyons deposed: 1 am a duly qualifiod medical practitioner and have inspected the body of the deceased, Frederiok Laoy. It seems healthy and well nourished, and has no external marks of injury on it. .M'ho expression ot : tue tico H placid, and there is no distortion of the foaturoB. The jaws are very flrrhly olosed, brit th oro is no npponrance of any froth about the nostrils or mouth. The body is unusuatly rigid, both the fore-arms having: a tondoney to bo iloxcdpn tho arm. -, This is more marked on the right than on the left side. The Angara are also firmly flexed in the hands. The legs seem to have a tendency to curve inwards and the foot otb' bent baolt warda and inwards. This appearance is also now marked on the right side. From the nature of the symptoms the witnesses have móhtionod I am of opinion deceased has died from come convulsive disease, The three most common convalsive diseases tiro np-ipUx.ri 'o jilopey end tetanus.

From the nature of the ronvu'slvtiBplsme,'ns described by the wltnèis Pntiorii'I should B»y they \viro tonio spasmB. aa dlstlnguleliod from 'elonio epiems. In the first wehlioAVd iou have only rigid contraction of the m'usons. In the socoiid you have contractions alternat ipgwí .Ji ro'nxationp. "Tonia spasms oro'charáotoristlo of tetanus, ólónlo of o'pllopsy. In apoplexy the ('ntl.nt is irqmy, and should Ihoro lo'ùny spasms they are of n clonio niilUro and'Very sHu'lit. Toonda is of two kjnds-idiopath'o and traumatic, the first irising from COUBOB within, the other from causes without the systom, There are no marks nor docs the evidence spook of injury to the body of deceased and there fore the tetanus Must have been idiopathic, and doubtless produced by some poison. Kux vómica (and its active principle strynhine) is the only poison that could have produced these symptoms in deceased. I am of opinion from what I have seen and heard that deceased died from poisoning by strychnine.

At the conclusion of the inquiry Mr Vyner having read the evidence olmorvod, that it appeared to him beyond a doubt that the deceased died from poisoning by strychnine. He did not feel it necessary to malro any roninrlm or to take any notloa in the matter beyond the usual course of forwarding the deposition to the Atterney General. - (Ref- Empire (Sydney, NSW : 1850 - 1875)(about) Previous issue Tuesday 18 August 1868).

1868 - DEATH BY POISONING. A remarkable case of death by poison, strychnine, has occured at Gocup Station near Tumut as reported by the Gundagai Times of 15th August.

Mr John Hay and Mr. Frederick Lacy were partners as graziers in the Gocup station and Mr Lacy lived there with Mr and Mrs Hay. He had lately appeared unwell and depressed in spirits but not to any serious extent. He kept a bottle of strychnine on his bedroom table for the purpose of poisoning native cats.

On the morning of Friday, the 7th instant, he had complained of a very bad headache, but said it was better before he started on horseback to go into Tumut. Before leaving he asked for and obtained a small phial bottle for which Mrs Hay gave him a cork but she did not see what he did with it, nor was this small bottle seen afterwards.

Whether Mr Lacy went into Tumut does not appear, but about three in the afternoon he called at Mr Brennan's, the Australian Arms Inn, Gocup Creek, and had a nobbler of raw brandy. Mrs. Brennan served him with this brandy out of a decanter and a fencer named Edwin Hardy had a nobbler at the same time and afterwards two glasses raw taken from the same decanter. Hardy afterwards deposed at the inquest that the brandy was dark in colour well flavoured and not at all bitter. And Mrs. Brennan said she had served several other persons from the decanter and that they had no poison in the house.

At half-past three o'clook Mr. Lacy rode up to the Gocup lambing station, about half a mile from the house and dismounted, and went up to David Patten, the shepherd, and asked him to held him up for he felt very bad. He said he was paralysed, and was going to die. I tried to cheer him up, but he said, "Davy, I'm going to die I must die." He said he had taken one glass of brandy at Brennan's public house. Another man named Jobn Tubberty helped me to held deceased and whilst we did so he took a fit. His hands were clenched and worked. He got quite stiff, threw his head back, and bent his back. We bathed his head with cold water, and he got better, but he seemed to have no use of his limbs. He appeared quite sensible.

I offered to send for Mrs Hay, but he told me not to do so then, but to send for Joe, and William Clee, and Augustus to take him home. He said he was going to have another fit and we took him into the hut, and laid him on the bed. He then had another fit but it did not last long. He drank a teaspoonful of some water I gave him at this time and then told me I could go and look after the sheep as there were plenty to assist him. He complained of thirst and said he would have another fit. I bathed his lips with water and just as I was going out another fit came on. I did not see him recover, as Mrs. Hay, Augustus, and Clee came, and then I left the hut.

Deceased was always quite sensible between the fits he said repeatedly, "Patten, I am dying, but you attend to the sheep." He did not seem the least alarmed or frightened, and he did not ask to have a doctor sent for. He asked for an emetic, and told me to mix some salt and water to make one, but he could not drink it. He might be an hour in the hut before he died.

Mr Lacy did not give Patton any further account of how he thought he had been injured or poisoned, nor did he say anything to Mrs. Hay, who arrived just before he died. But he told Augustus Jeremias that the brandy he had at Brennan's had poisoned him.

Augustus Jeremias deposed at the inquest as follows:— I am fitting up Gocup house for Mr Hay. On Friday afternoon I was called to go to the sheep station, where Mr Lacy was ill. I found deceased lying on his back on a bed in the shepherd's hut; he was quite sensible and asked me if Mrs Hay knew he was ill, I said Mrs. Hay was close at hand and he said he hoped she would not come and see him when he was in such a state. He said some brandy he had drunk at Brennan's had poisoned him and that when he got to the shepherd's hut be felt so ill he had to get out of there. He also said he thought he should soon get a little better. I went out to Mrs Hay to tell her how ill deceased was and when I came back he was in a fit. He clenched his hands and his chest on the right side worked violently. There was no froth from his mouth, but it got dry and his teeth were clenched. There was no distortion of the features. Before the fit came on he had twitches and jerks which increased in violence. He threw his head back and his chest up, and seemed in great pain.

Dr William Lyons, who arrived after death, and who inspected the body said he found no injury on it what ever, nor anything to account for death. He described the rigid condition of the limbs and said he were of opinion from what he saw and from Patton's description of what passed before death, that Mr Lacy died from being poisoned by strychnine.

A magisterial enquiry was held on the body by Mr Vyner, Police Magistrate, when the above evidence was taken. Mr Vyner remarked that it appeared certain the deceased died from strychnine, and that he should merely send the depositions on to the Attorney General as usual.- (Ref- The Maitland Mercury & Hunter River General Advertiser (NSW : 1843 - 1893)(about) Previous issue Thursday 20 August 1868).

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